This a continuation of a debate that I'm having with a dear friend on Facebook. While we do not see eye to eye, I very much respect this person.
Hi Brian, be happy for you to post my comments on your blog. I'd be thrilled to be a contrary voice.
These are the comments you made that I found sad and upsetting.
"there are plenty of countries that embrace liberal doctrine why don't all the liberals just go there instead of attempting to change this place"
- america is great because of it's diversity of views and opinions because you can have an eccentric or crazy view and your voice will be heard.
"they have a skewered thought process, this is why liberals never actually win a debate" again comments that make me sad.
You have a voice, you have opinions, I respect that and I admire your passion which is why I wrote to you in the first place, why can't you express your views without making blanket statements about groups that can never be homogenous. I would have nothing to do with you if I thought you were a gun totting, gay bashing racist but you must realise that it's nonsense to say everything Obama did was a disaster (Clinton left a budget surplus, the deficit was created on the republicans watch and inherited by Obama), and Mitt's the big saviour. Both parties have good ideas and if they made an effort to talk to each other and work together they could do great things for this country, but neither side will do so because of political rhetoric.
Your car analogy with health surprises me since your in the medical field. Just this month I've dealt with a baby born with congenital heart disease, uninsured parents, a single mother working 2 jobs, uninsured cannot afford her daughters asthma meds so instead of being well controlled the child is constantly in and out of hospital, a young man severly injured in a car accident he did not cause - where in all this is do you find irresponsibility? So basically if you're poor you don't deserve healthcare. The irresponsible behaviour (overeating, not exercising, smoking, drinking too much is much more likely on those with means that can afford insurance demand unnecessary tests, eat up resources).
You are absolutely right "a hand up, not a hand out" to me that's providing scholarships for those that work hard, subsidizing university for those without means, providing training programs for people that show hard work, diligence and determination - you need the government to do that private business can only do so much.
I like your that you have a position, it would be great if you used your blog as an open forum to discuss ideas. A great rule would be no labels. People should say I disagree with people who think x, y or z not "liberals think this" or "conservatives say that", because that's basically an excuse for cheap shots without substance.
I'm a fiscal conservative, I have no problem with gun rights with responsibility. If I was a Mainer I would vote for Oympia Snow as easily as I would an independent or a democrat, I vote the issues not the individual or the party and I hate labels. Saying liberals should leave this country was a terrible thing to say and certainly not worthy of you - unless you think that a right wing country where every body had exactly the same opinion and agreed with you all the time is something to aspire to.
This was fun
My Response:
I was unaware that any of my observations were cheap shots without substance. As I said before, I research extensively prior to making any statements. My observations, while my opinion, are always rooted in fact.
Let's start with your statement about Clinton's surplus. Clinton had to appease a Republican Congress and brought our country to the middle. Where it should be. He also rode a wave of technological innovation spurred by an unregulated technology that rivaled the post WWII industrial boom. I could have been president and left a surplus in that economic atmosphere.
Next we have Obama inherited a deficit. Bush's deficit total for the 8 years he was in office was about $5 Trillion dollars. The total deficit was about $10.5 Trillion dollars. Obama has been in office for almost 4 years and his administration has eclipsed Bush's spending. Our current deficit is over $16 Trillion. His own Senate, controlled by the Democrats voted down his budget 99-0. He can't even rally his own troops. He enacted the ACA in the guise of social reform. Have you sat down and read this monstrosity? I've skimmed it, probably even read more of it then the people that voted for it by their own admission. I never said that Mitt is the big savior. He is a politician and a human. I believe his ideals are more in line with the majority of the populace. Let's just call the Obama administration what it is. A failure. Show me specific examples where this is untrue. Show me the reasoning behind spending $4 Billion a day in deficit and $250 Billion a year just in deficit service charges.
The analogy with the health care thing, well, that's my opinion. I have no trouble helping the truly helpless. What I see is the majority of the entitled misusing the ER. Not adhering to medical advice. No personal accountability. The examples you give could all be covered under a blanket catastrophic and or children's policy funded by the government. But when people show up to the ER via ambulance because of a callous on their toe, then they should have some sort of ramification for misuse of services.
Subsidizing education. This gets dicey because I actually utilized a retraining program to get my first degree. I followed all the rules, attended all my classes, reported to my case manager and graduated with high honors. My employer saw something in my work and work ethic that prompted them to pay for my second degree, which I again, followed the rules, attended all my classes and graduated with honors. All this while still working full time performing my duties as a Medical Assistant 36hrs a week and part time as a Rad Tech Aid 16hrs a week. I got subsidies. Now, do you know that the top ten largest colleges hold endowments that range from $25 Billion for number one to $4 Billion for number 10? How's that for greed? Some of these schools have recently been in the news for their exorbitant compensation packages they offer their educators. And yet they vilify Wall Street. It's be correlated that the amount of available funds have driven up the cost of advanced education. If the government is going to hand out money, they will figure out a way to get it all.
The American populace will never be homogeneous. Our country is always in flux. The beauty of the system is that anyone can make it. With hard work and perseverance anyone can. I'm a high school drop out that has earned the respect of Doctor's, Lawyer's and my peers. I earned it. I worked for it. Is it too much to expect the same from others? Again, my opinions are rooted in fact. I will change my opinion when you or others can show me specific facts that support your view. Most of the inflammatory rhetoric is coming from the left.
And you are right..this is fun!
Hi Brian, be happy for you to post my comments on your blog. I'd be thrilled to be a contrary voice.
These are the comments you made that I found sad and upsetting.
"there are plenty of countries that embrace liberal doctrine why don't all the liberals just go there instead of attempting to change this place"
- america is great because of it's diversity of views and opinions because you can have an eccentric or crazy view and your voice will be heard.
"they have a skewered thought process, this is why liberals never actually win a debate" again comments that make me sad.
You have a voice, you have opinions, I respect that and I admire your passion which is why I wrote to you in the first place, why can't you express your views without making blanket statements about groups that can never be homogenous. I would have nothing to do with you if I thought you were a gun totting, gay bashing racist but you must realise that it's nonsense to say everything Obama did was a disaster (Clinton left a budget surplus, the deficit was created on the republicans watch and inherited by Obama), and Mitt's the big saviour. Both parties have good ideas and if they made an effort to talk to each other and work together they could do great things for this country, but neither side will do so because of political rhetoric.
Your car analogy with health surprises me since your in the medical field. Just this month I've dealt with a baby born with congenital heart disease, uninsured parents, a single mother working 2 jobs, uninsured cannot afford her daughters asthma meds so instead of being well controlled the child is constantly in and out of hospital, a young man severly injured in a car accident he did not cause - where in all this is do you find irresponsibility? So basically if you're poor you don't deserve healthcare. The irresponsible behaviour (overeating, not exercising, smoking, drinking too much is much more likely on those with means that can afford insurance demand unnecessary tests, eat up resources).
You are absolutely right "a hand up, not a hand out" to me that's providing scholarships for those that work hard, subsidizing university for those without means, providing training programs for people that show hard work, diligence and determination - you need the government to do that private business can only do so much.
I like your that you have a position, it would be great if you used your blog as an open forum to discuss ideas. A great rule would be no labels. People should say I disagree with people who think x, y or z not "liberals think this" or "conservatives say that", because that's basically an excuse for cheap shots without substance.
I'm a fiscal conservative, I have no problem with gun rights with responsibility. If I was a Mainer I would vote for Oympia Snow as easily as I would an independent or a democrat, I vote the issues not the individual or the party and I hate labels. Saying liberals should leave this country was a terrible thing to say and certainly not worthy of you - unless you think that a right wing country where every body had exactly the same opinion and agreed with you all the time is something to aspire to.
This was fun
My Response:
I was unaware that any of my observations were cheap shots without substance. As I said before, I research extensively prior to making any statements. My observations, while my opinion, are always rooted in fact.
Let's start with your statement about Clinton's surplus. Clinton had to appease a Republican Congress and brought our country to the middle. Where it should be. He also rode a wave of technological innovation spurred by an unregulated technology that rivaled the post WWII industrial boom. I could have been president and left a surplus in that economic atmosphere.
Next we have Obama inherited a deficit. Bush's deficit total for the 8 years he was in office was about $5 Trillion dollars. The total deficit was about $10.5 Trillion dollars. Obama has been in office for almost 4 years and his administration has eclipsed Bush's spending. Our current deficit is over $16 Trillion. His own Senate, controlled by the Democrats voted down his budget 99-0. He can't even rally his own troops. He enacted the ACA in the guise of social reform. Have you sat down and read this monstrosity? I've skimmed it, probably even read more of it then the people that voted for it by their own admission. I never said that Mitt is the big savior. He is a politician and a human. I believe his ideals are more in line with the majority of the populace. Let's just call the Obama administration what it is. A failure. Show me specific examples where this is untrue. Show me the reasoning behind spending $4 Billion a day in deficit and $250 Billion a year just in deficit service charges.
The analogy with the health care thing, well, that's my opinion. I have no trouble helping the truly helpless. What I see is the majority of the entitled misusing the ER. Not adhering to medical advice. No personal accountability. The examples you give could all be covered under a blanket catastrophic and or children's policy funded by the government. But when people show up to the ER via ambulance because of a callous on their toe, then they should have some sort of ramification for misuse of services.
Subsidizing education. This gets dicey because I actually utilized a retraining program to get my first degree. I followed all the rules, attended all my classes, reported to my case manager and graduated with high honors. My employer saw something in my work and work ethic that prompted them to pay for my second degree, which I again, followed the rules, attended all my classes and graduated with honors. All this while still working full time performing my duties as a Medical Assistant 36hrs a week and part time as a Rad Tech Aid 16hrs a week. I got subsidies. Now, do you know that the top ten largest colleges hold endowments that range from $25 Billion for number one to $4 Billion for number 10? How's that for greed? Some of these schools have recently been in the news for their exorbitant compensation packages they offer their educators. And yet they vilify Wall Street. It's be correlated that the amount of available funds have driven up the cost of advanced education. If the government is going to hand out money, they will figure out a way to get it all.
The American populace will never be homogeneous. Our country is always in flux. The beauty of the system is that anyone can make it. With hard work and perseverance anyone can. I'm a high school drop out that has earned the respect of Doctor's, Lawyer's and my peers. I earned it. I worked for it. Is it too much to expect the same from others? Again, my opinions are rooted in fact. I will change my opinion when you or others can show me specific facts that support your view. Most of the inflammatory rhetoric is coming from the left.
And you are right..this is fun!
